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Author Topic: The End of the NHS  (Read 754 times)
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Bernie
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« on: December 21, 2022, 02:02:04 PM »


When the NHS was set up post WW2 by a Labour government, it was something that had never been tried before - effectively a socialist experiment.

Isn't it about time we admitted that the experiment has failed?

We are often told that the NHS is unique in the world - well there is a good reason for that. Like most socialist schemes it just gobbles money without producing a great deal.

The idea that it's underfunded is nonsense - we spend nearly 4 billion a day on it! It's also the biggest employer in Europe! We have become a health service with a country attached!

The pro NHS people will shriek that without it we will end up like the USA. But why? Nowhere else in Europe has a system like ours, yet thanks to their sensible insurance based schemes they actually have far better healthcare than we do.

Sadly, there will be no sensible debate on this as any attempt to bring the NHS money furnaces under control will simply be met with fury by those with the loudest voices.
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kippers
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2022, 02:30:38 PM »

 :like:

Coupled with the fact that far too many people think everything is free.
This country needs a massive dose of self awareness and responsibility, instead of the daily whining nonsense.
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Rutters
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2022, 05:07:33 PM »

We either fundamentally reform it or we keep throwing more and more money at it, expecting worse and worse outcomes and having less and less to spend on anything else.
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Squarewheelbike
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2022, 09:39:39 PM »

The simple fact of the matter is, that when the Tories took over the NHS 12 years ago, it was in rude health after 13 years of Labour doing what was right. The fact that the Tories will always rush to chop it up for the benefit of their rich mates is a given. Remember that even Thatcher thought that flogging off the Railways was a bridge too far, but the bullies behind Major got their way and look at it now. Simple fact of the matter is the Tories will flog the NHS to make themselves richer, then turn round and say "feck you, ha ha ha!" The C**nts!
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Rutters
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2022, 10:30:17 PM »

There's a good reason for that. Although we were the first to set up a NHS, no-one has copied the model.

Personally I'd go find the country with the best outcomes and copy what they do and how they fund it.

That would, of course, inevitably lead to the usual Left Wing Head-Nodders screaming 'look, they're selling it off to their mates!'.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 11:42:24 PM by Rutters » Logged
Bill Buxton
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2022, 11:16:32 PM »

The UK spends just about the same per capital as Germany on their respective health systems.Thatís the only similarity. The German system however has much better outcomes. The NHS is not starved of funds. Just about £200 Billion this year. Thatís about £10,560 per UK household. The NHS is simply not fit for purpose. It needs both main political parties to agree to take the politics out of health care in this country. The NHS must be stripped of its sacred cow status. Basically it needs to be scrapped,and a new system created. In my view this system needs to  include some element of financial contribution from the users. The NHS has become a bureaucratic nightmare. Unfortunately Labour has weaponised the NHS and the Tories are shit scared of tackling this utterly failed model. Even in Ukraine today you can be admitted to hospital far quicker than in the UK.
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Rutters
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2022, 11:47:27 PM »

Labour don't really care about outcomes. They're happy to just use the NHS to win votes, virtue signal and scare-monger.
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Bernie
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2022, 10:30:01 AM »

So much wastage.........40 million a year on diversity officers.

The NHS must be one of the most diverse organisations in the UK

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11562049/So-DOES-money-graph-breaking-broken-NHSs-finances.html

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kippers
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2022, 10:36:59 AM »

The simple fact of the matter is, that when the Tories took over the NHS 12 years ago, it was in rude health after 13 years of Labour doing what was right. The fact that the Tories will always rush to chop it up for the benefit of their rich mates is a given. Remember that even Thatcher thought that flogging off the Railways was a bridge too far, but the bullies behind Major got their way and look at it now. Simple fact of the matter is the Tories will flog the NHS to make themselves richer, then turn round and say "feck you, ha ha ha!" The C**nts!

And there is the problem.
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Bernie
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2022, 10:41:11 AM »

Have a look at the Yarm Dr's website.

The average pay before tax for a GP working there is £135k 

https://www.yarmmedicalpractice.nhs.uk/earnings.aspx

They don't open at weekend so that's for a Monday to Friday job.

Nice work if you can get it.  :steptoe:

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Bill Buxton
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2022, 01:26:57 PM »

Iím afraid that the NHS has become a  disastrous money pit. Constantly throwing money at a failed organization is utterly stupid. I suspect billions could be saved or diverted to clinical care if thousands of non jobs were scrapped. The level of bureaucracy is simply staggering. Take a look at other European systems. They manage fine without legions of overpaid wasters.
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myboro
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« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2022, 03:04:55 AM »

Why, where is the money now going? 12 years ago we had small waiting lists. 4 Million before the pandemic. Tax or eat the fucking rich and keep people alive. End Homlessness by taxing the fucking rich.

You know what they will still be rich but we will have nobody homeless and will treat ill people.

Merry Xmas far right ghouls, you have more in common with (immigrants) Braverman and Patel than me born in a council house. OMG you are so stupid.


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MF(c) DOOM
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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2022, 11:30:45 AM »

Funny how it only seems to fail when its under tory governance. There was some excellent graphs in the times the other day showing how much better NHS outcomes were when Labour are in charge, particularly when Blair was in charge when nearly every measure of success was getting smashed out of the park. Nearly every one of those measures is now at the opposite end of the spectrum after 12 years of tory rule.
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kippers
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2022, 12:31:51 PM »

PFI
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Bill Buxton
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2022, 12:42:05 PM »

The NHS was failing from its inception. Scrap it and introduce an element of financial contribution.
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Rutters
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« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2022, 01:23:21 PM »

The Danish system is fully publicly funded (like ours).
It takes less of their GDP than ours but enjoys much better outcomes.

The difference is that theirs is administered locally so they can deal with issues quickly and efficiently...And they don't have the burden of bloated national government interference imposing wasteful initiatives, laughable procurement procedures, counter-productive targets and politically motivated 'diversity' drives.

They have the power to say what sort of nurses/doctors are to be recruited and retained. They can say to Doctors 'sorry about your work/life balance, we have a health crisis' and they can actually collect payments from health tourists to reinvest locally.

If you took that system and included payments for missed appointments and allowed competition from private providers then you really would have a service of envy to the rest of the world.
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kippers
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« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2022, 04:07:28 PM »

The NHS was failing from its inception. Scrap it and introduce an element of financial contribution.

But but everyone thinks everything is free !!!!
Even those that dont contribute and those that take no personal responsibility.  Its all the governments fault they cry.
Labour wont change that.
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Bud Wiser
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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2022, 04:11:49 PM »

Why, where is the money now going? 12 years ago we had small waiting lists. 4 Million before the pandemic. Tax or eat the fucking rich and keep people alive. End Homlessness by taxing the fucking rich.

You know what they will still be rich but we will have nobody homeless and will treat ill people.

Merry Xmas far right ghouls, you have more in common with (immigrants) Braverman and Patel than me born in a council house. OMG you are so stupid.




Hmmm. Thats an original one! And who knows, in doing so we could maybe even create a nation of unaspirational, state-sponging morons in the process.

P.S.

Both Suella Braverman & Priti Patel were born in the UK.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 04:33:27 PM by Bud Wiser » Logged

Bill Buxton
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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2022, 04:59:08 PM »

The Danish system is fully publicly funded (like ours).
It takes less of their GDP than ours but enjoys much better outcomes.

The difference is that theirs is administered locally so they can deal with issues quickly and efficiently...And they don't have the burden of bloated national government interference imposing wasteful initiatives, laughable procurement procedures, counter-productive targets and politically motivated 'diversity' drives.

They have the power to say what sort of nurses/doctors are to be recruited and retained. They can say to Doctors 'sorry about your work/life balance, we have a health crisis' and they can actually collect payments from health tourists to reinvest locally.






If you took that system and included payments for missed appointments and allowed competition from private




providers then you really would have a service of envy to the rest of the world.






Absolutely agree. At present we can only dream of having a health service as good as Denmark.
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