Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 21, 2020, 01:44:39 PM
Home Help Search Login Register

News: GET READY FOR THE PROMOTION PUSH...

Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Jacob Rees-Mogg  (Read 3638 times)
Squarewheelbike
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6 935


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2019, 07:35:56 PM »

Please explain how 'intelligent and industrious people's create wealth out of thin air?  This is the biggest load of shite I've ever heard. There are two ways to create wealth, primary extraction e.g mining,  forestry, farming, foraging. The second ways is to take these products and add value to them by creating a finished product e.g food stuffs, furniture, metals,  which can be further refined into more complex products. The rest of economic activity is base upon services,  such as insurance,  banking,  law etc which of themselves create no wealth. You could argue that art, music,  painting etc have an intrinsic value but without the primary and secondary wealth creation to support such endeavours , it is ultimately without intrinsic value

Now, tell me how to create 'wealth' out of thin air. You fucking moron

You call me a moron and you've answered your own question.

What value does a lump of iron have intrinsically? Absolutely fuck all, you can't eat it, burn it or use it to comfort you in any way.
But show industriousness and ingenuity and you can turn it into something of value. That's creating value out of thin air. The value wasn't locked in the iron all the time, a human created it from the iron.

What is the intrinsic value of a share? Or a mortgage? Zero, ziltch, nadda. It has purely subjective value.

I know thick as pig shit socialists struggle with the ideas of subjective and objective value but global output of raw materials has no correlation to global GDP. This is something you learn in A level economics.

The amount of wealth that can be created is not finite, it never was and it never will be.

You dumb socialist cunt.


You have zero understanding of economics. Without the lump of iron to begin with, how can you make it into anything? There is no creation of value out of thin air, you take something and improve it, or make it more useful, therefore value is added. The value of a share is based on the perceived value of the company it is a share in, which is a product of its assets, intangible and tangible. Share prices are easily manipulated, due to morons like you who don't understand the differences between reality and fantasy

Little point in engaging in further debate with you, you clearly believe the bullshit that something can be created from nothing, which is ruining the planet ultimately. You can't get blood out of a stone

You better go tell every physicist in the world that something can't be created from nothing because every single thing in this universe was created from nothing at the moment of the big bang.

Anyway you're clearly economically incompetent so let me recommend you some books:

Wealth of nations - Adam Smith
Basic Economics - Thomas Sowell
Theory of the consumption function - Milton Friedman
The constitution of liberty - Friedrich Hayek

When you've read them let's have a discussion on value and its relationship with wealth.

Someone's been googling!
Logged
Bud Wiser
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9 905


Bausor & Gill OUT!!!


View Profile
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2019, 07:53:14 PM »

To hear Teessiders lauding that cunt beggars belief. The Ideological State Apparatus is playing a fucking blinder lads souey rava

Probably a reflection of the contempt the average man on the streets of Teesside has for the current Labour party that they prefer a complete toff over a terrorist sympathising cunt who employs idiots like the thick racist Dianne Abbot because of her ethnicity.

Oh here we go with the terrorist sympathiser rhetoric. Fuck off and chat shit with someone else if that is all you have got  :wanker:

If nothing else I'll give you top marks for the millennial speak, Bruv.  :like:  klins
Logged

towz
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8 984


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2019, 01:35:19 AM »

Again you display your total stupidity. The Big Bang Theory does not state that anything was created from nothing but that at some point, the theoretical 'before', all energy/ matter in the currently observable universe was concentrated into a single point, or singularity. This under went what is now termed inflation during the 'big Big bang' and the observable universe as we know it today was born. In a nutshell

So again, nothing was created from nothing, you fucking peon
Logged
Bobupanddown
*****
Online Online

Posts: 4 143


View Profile
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2019, 08:42:46 AM »

Again you display your total stupidity. The Big Bang Theory does not state that anything was created from nothing but that at some point, the theoretical 'before', all energy/ matter in the currently observable universe was concentrated into a single point, or singularity. This under went what is now termed inflation during the 'big Big bang' and the observable universe as we know it today was born. In a nutshell

So again, nothing was created from nothing, you fucking peon

So before the singularity, what existed? Uhhhh :lenin:
Logged

There is nothing socialist about China

towz
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8 984


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2019, 10:33:04 AM »

Why does there have to be a before?
Logged
El Capitan
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 43 083


View Profile
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2019, 10:56:43 AM »

Again you display your total stupidity. The Big Bang Theory does not state that anything was created from nothing but that at some point, the theoretical 'before', all energy/ matter in the currently observable universe was concentrated into a single point, or singularity. This under went what is now termed inflation during the 'big Big bang' and the observable universe as we know it today was born. In a nutshell

So again, nothing was created from nothing, you fucking peon


 :like:
Logged

Rob Nichols ruined my life.
Jimmy Cooper
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24 369


The ace face.


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2019, 11:57:49 AM »

Again you display your total stupidity. The Big Bang Theory does not state that anything was created from nothing but that at some point, the theoretical 'before', all energy/ matter in the currently observable universe was concentrated into a single point, or singularity. This under went what is now termed inflation during the 'big Big bang' and the observable universe as we know it today was born. In a nutshell

So again, nothing was created from nothing, you fucking peon
where did that come from then  :pope2:
Logged

"you can take the mail and the franking machine and all that other rubbish I have to go about with and you can stuff them right up your arse!” "
towz
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8 984


View Profile
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2019, 12:16:31 PM »

Why does it have to come from anywhere. Maybe it was always there. Maybe the universe goes through a series of expansions and contractions. Maybe all black holes are the singularity of other universes which start when a massive enough star in a prior universe supanovas
Logged
Bobupanddown
*****
Online Online

Posts: 4 143


View Profile
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2019, 12:26:06 PM »

Why does it have to come from anywhere. Maybe it was always there. Maybe the universe goes through a series of expansions and contractions. Maybe all black holes are the singularity of other universes which start when a massive enough star in a prior universe supanovas

It came from nothing you fucking stupid cunt.

Jet engine parts are not inherently in iron ore you daft fucking twat.

There is no finite amount of wealth or value, you retarded camel fucker.
Logged

There is nothing socialist about China

El Capitan
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 43 083


View Profile
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2019, 12:37:29 PM »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartle–Hawking_state
Logged

Rob Nichols ruined my life.
Jimmy Cooper
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24 369


The ace face.


View Profile
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2019, 12:38:10 PM »

Why does it have to come from anywhere. Maybe it was always there. Maybe the universe goes through a series of expansions and contractions. Maybe all black holes are the singularity of other universes which start when a massive enough star in a prior universe supanovas
maybe it was always there I have no argument, the human brain usually thinks in terms of starting and end points to explain things and maintain order. For instance time is a concept that we use  as a measure  of order and  control  to give a start and finishing point. Do the laws of physics allow something to be created from nothing,our brains won't allow us to accept that , over to plaz for this one. :pd:
Logged

"you can take the mail and the franking machine and all that other rubbish I have to go about with and you can stuff them right up your arse!” "
El Capitan
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 43 083


View Profile
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2019, 12:42:14 PM »

Why does it have to come from anywhere. Maybe it was always there. Maybe the universe goes through a series of expansions and contractions. Maybe all black holes are the singularity of other universes which start when a massive enough star in a prior universe supanovas
maybe it was always there I have no argument, the human brain usually thinks in terms of starting and end points to explain things and maintain order. For instance time is a concept that we use  as a measure  of order and  control  to give a start and finishing point. Do the laws of physics allow something to be created from nothing,our brains won't allow us to accept that , over to plaz for this one. :pd:


 :like:


The theory is basically that there was no time concept, only space
Logged

Rob Nichols ruined my life.
Jimmy Cooper
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24 369


The ace face.


View Profile
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2019, 12:48:24 PM »

Why does it have to come from anywhere. Maybe it was always there. Maybe the universe goes through a series of expansions and contractions. Maybe all black holes are the singularity of other universes which start when a massive enough star in a prior universe supanovas
maybe it was always there I have no argument, the human brain usually thinks in terms of starting and end points to explain things and maintain order. For instance time is a concept that we use  as a measure  of order and  control  to give a start and finishing point. Do the laws of physics allow something to be created from nothing,our brains won't allow us to accept that , over to plaz for this one. :pd:


 :like:


The theory is basically that there was no time concept, only space
where did the space come from, I liked it better when gods were the explanation, the thunder god, the rain god, of course then some clever cunt says who made god.
like infinity it goes on and on. :alf:
Logged

"you can take the mail and the franking machine and all that other rubbish I have to go about with and you can stuff them right up your arse!” "
Robbso
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14 281


View Profile
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2019, 12:49:54 PM »

Well you’ll remember them :alf:
Logged
RedSteel
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9 904

UTB


View Profile
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2019, 01:00:23 PM »

Clicked on page 2 to see what all the fuss was about regarding JRM, and you're all talking about some US Sitcom  :wanker:
Logged
Jimmy Cooper
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 24 369


The ace face.


View Profile
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2019, 01:13:46 PM »

Well you’ll remember them :alf:

Logged

"you can take the mail and the franking machine and all that other rubbish I have to go about with and you can stuff them right up your arse!” "
towz
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8 984


View Profile
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2019, 01:26:57 PM »

Why does it have to come from anywhere. Maybe it was always there. Maybe the universe goes through a series of expansions and contractions. Maybe all black holes are the singularity of other universes which start when a massive enough star in a prior universe supanovas

It came from nothing you fucking stupid cunt.

Jet engine parts are not inherently in iron ore you daft fucking twat.

There is no finite amount of wealth or value, you retarded camel fucker.


OK mind blown. Wasnt hard. Job done :wanker:
Logged
Gramsci
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8 282



View Profile
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2019, 08:24:32 AM »

Don't shoot the messenger - I couldn't give a fuck, most are self-serving cunts, I am just trying to help you lift your head from your latest bit of Marxist theory to provide some granular detail to explain why JRM is liked by some.



Have you read any of it - interesting stuff especially in times like these?
That is an unloaded question by the way.
Quit the Corbyn terrorist sympathiser shit though....it makes you look like you do your research via the Daily Mail  mick

Yes I've read various Marxist stuff before hitting 25, had a temporary interest in Engels and anything to do with antiestablishment. Lost interest after a while, as I developed a career for myself in a capitalist world, driven by the increasing need and pressure to pay bills to provide for my growing family. It dawned on me that theory is one thing pragmatism is another, in other words, practicality outweighed personal beliefs. I also like to look at myself in the mirror (metaphorically) in the morning so cannot be a hypocrite.





Absolutely fair dos fella, I wouldn't criticise that at all.
I do not necessarily believe in the implementation of a Marxist state, however I do believe in a fairer distribution of wealth. There is nothing wrong with that. Having a system where a tiny minority is able to harness a massive majority of wealth deserves to be overthrown.
What Marxist literature allows is an understanding of how social structures operate in ways that maintain hegemonic control, thus preserving the inequality that exists and how the divide between the haves and havenots is forever widening. For me, engaging with Marxist literature, however out of date it may seem, was enlightening - that's why I am all for people engaging with it  :like:

The problem is not so much with wealth but the increase in power and the abuse of it at micro and macro level. I have worked in private and public sectors, mainly the former. If my experience of the sectors is applied to a socialist v capitalist state then I’d opt for the latter all day long. I found the public sector extremely elitist, pompous, idle and disingenuous. The primary goal is self protection at all costs and bring down your neighbours to elevate ones profile, all this at the expense of the service they’re being funded to manage and provide. It was also grossly inefficient due to egos, arrogance, demarcation and self protection. It promotes a culture of equality, high values etc etc but the gap between the message and reality is enormous. This system creates jobs but creates idleness, dependency and inefficiency.

The private sector is similar in parts to above but is more focussed on producing a product or service profitability and efficiently so it can stay in business. If it doesn’t it ceases to function. Leadership is similar insofar as being utterly utterly selfish, machine like and financially driven. Anyone in junior positions who can help generate more profit is eventually recognised by them, making it more of a meritocracy.

Not having a go here but I also discovered that people with a left leaning in the private sector, who had been to a red brick uni were two faced elitist snobby cunts. They’d mock people from the shop floor for leading a proletarian lifestyle and look down at people who went to ex polys like me while pushing their Marxist agenda in conversations but not in the way they acted.  Totally hypocritical.  

I concluded that I’d rather work my balls off for a power crazed two faced cunt who tells me I’m a piece of shit than a lefty power crazed cunt who is blowing smoke up my arse while thinking the same thing.

Again I wouldn't argue with any of that WW, like you say the abuse of power is the key here, whatever the flavour of the regime .....that's why I do not call myself a Marxist or Socialist - because at the end of the day, the desire to have control over others is a wholly negative desire in itself, whether that control comes from the left or the right. So when you talk of hypocrisy from the left (in certain circumstances that you cite here), I totally agree.
In an ideal world, anarcho-syndicalism seems to be a form of social and cultural organisation that, in theory, best serves the interests of the people and society as a whole:
"The syndicate being actually governed from below and being untainted by the idea or the institution of authority, represents more truly than any other type of organisation the will of the workers and the good of society. Its lack of centralism and lack of bureaucracy, of any kind of privilege or vested interest in the present order of society, give it a flexibility of action and real solidarity which make it the ideal instrument for canalising and influencing in the right way the spontaneous revolutionary activity of the people. "

That in bold, is an attempt to bring the argument back to to the OP about JRM - he only has his own (and his cronies) privileged and vested interests at heart and anyone who believes that he could do good for the people of this country is an absolute fucking idiot in my opinion
Logged
Wee_Willie
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9 368



View Profile
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2019, 10:01:20 AM »

I can agree with some of that as a passive anarchist and egalitarian at heart.  :mido: I do believe the government should have a limited remit.

Being a pragmatist with 30+ years of employment experience under my belt I can see flaws and questions that make it unworkable and too radical so would prefer a compromise. There always needs to be authority and power, and structure. For instance, if you are far more skilled, contribute more and add more value to your business function than one or more of your co-workers how does the system recognise you? Likewise if you are unintelligent, idle, not focussed etc, how is this recognised and who s the judge? In saying this I've never witnessed a recognition system that works fairly in practice unless the gap is like comparing Ronaldo and Gestede.
  
I said I prefer a compromise as extreme socialist and capitalist approaches are flawed. My compromise relies on business owners being fair, in touch with reality and philanthropic, but this is a rarity. They need policies that engender a happy brother in arms culture across its entire workforce all focussed on pleasing the people who buy/ receive the product/service. The team will either fail or succeed as a unit.  Making staff feel important, cared for and rewarded breeds loyalty where staff are more likely to go that extra mile. I could go on. Likewise if you are a shirker you are weeded out.

I like the approach that Timpsons adopt and actions of Julian Richer and the culture he has created; two very successful businesses.
Logged
Gramsci
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8 282



View Profile
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2019, 11:26:24 AM »

I can agree with some of that as a passive anarchist and egalitarian at heart.  :mido: I do believe the government should have a limited remit.

Being a pragmatist with 30+ years of employment experience under my belt I can see flaws and questions that make it unworkable and too radical so would prefer a compromise. There always needs to be authority and power, and structure. For instance, if you are far more skilled, contribute more and add more value to your business function than one or more of your co-workers how does the system recognise you? Likewise if you are unintelligent, idle, not focussed etc, how is this recognised and who s the judge? In saying this I've never witnessed a recognition system that works fairly in practice unless the gap is like comparing Ronaldo and Gestede.
  
I said I prefer a compromise as extreme socialist and capitalist approaches are flawed. My compromise relies on business owners being fair, in touch with reality and philanthropic, but this is a rarity. They need policies that engender a happy brother in arms culture across its entire workforce all focussed on pleasing the people who buy/ receive the product/service. The team will either fail or succeed as a unit.  Making staff feel important, cared for and rewarded breeds loyalty where staff are more likely to go that extra mile. I could go on. Likewise if you are a shirker you are weeded out.

I like the approach that Timpsons adopt and actions of Julian Richer and the culture he has created; two very successful businesses.

Excellent post  :like:

Can't argue with any of it
Logged
towz
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8 984


View Profile
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2019, 01:01:16 AM »

I can agree with some of that as a passive anarchist and egalitarian at heart.  :mido: I do believe the government should have a limited remit.

Being a pragmatist with 30+ years of employment experience under my belt I can see flaws and questions that make it unworkable and too radical so would prefer a compromise. There always needs to be authority and power, and structure. For instance, if you are far more skilled, contribute more and add more value to your business function than one or more of your co-workers how does the system recognise you? Likewise if you are unintelligent, idle, not focussed etc, how is this recognised and who s the judge? In saying this I've never witnessed a recognition system that works fairly in practice unless the gap is like comparing Ronaldo and Gestede.
  
I said I prefer a compromise as extreme socialist and capitalist approaches are flawed. My compromise relies on business owners being fair, in touch with reality and philanthropic, but this is a rarity. They need policies that engender a happy brother in arms culture across its entire workforce all focussed on pleasing the people who buy/ receive the product/service. The team will either fail or succeed as a unit.  Making staff feel important, cared for and rewarded breeds loyalty where staff are more likely to go that extra mile. I could go on. Likewise if you are a shirker you are weeded out.

I like the approach that Timpsons adopt and actions of Julian Richer and the culture he has created; two very successful businesses.

Excellent post  :like:

Can't argue with any of it

The problem is that the business world encourages psychopaths to get to the top, the problem is bigger in larger organizations where Machiavellian scheming and backstabbing is rewarded and like minds end up together in board rooms. Ability and talent general get you nowhere as those who are actually good at their job and get on with it without engaging in the power politics get kept in their positions while less able power hungry psycho types end up getting the promotions. Management skills should be something that people add to their existing skills as and when required with an organization. These people that do an MBA then think they automatically should be put in leadership positions and the culture that promotes this is a big problem

Your idealized world of altruistic leaders supporting and recognizing talented people and allowing them to progress just doesn't happy in reality

Lie communism, it's great in theory but human nature makes it impractical.
Logged
Wee_Willie
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9 368



View Profile
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2019, 07:48:31 AM »

I can agree with some of that as a passive anarchist and egalitarian at heart.  :mido: I do believe the government should have a limited remit.

Being a pragmatist with 30+ years of employment experience under my belt I can see flaws and questions that make it unworkable and too radical so would prefer a compromise. There always needs to be authority and power, and structure. For instance, if you are far more skilled, contribute more and add more value to your business function than one or more of your co-workers how does the system recognise you? Likewise if you are unintelligent, idle, not focussed etc, how is this recognised and who s the judge? In saying this I've never witnessed a recognition system that works fairly in practice unless the gap is like comparing Ronaldo and Gestede.
  
I said I prefer a compromise as extreme socialist and capitalist approaches are flawed. My compromise relies on business owners being fair, in touch with reality and philanthropic, but this is a rarity. They need policies that engender a happy brother in arms culture across its entire workforce all focussed on pleasing the people who buy/ receive the product/service. The team will either fail or succeed as a unit.  Making staff feel important, cared for and rewarded breeds loyalty where staff are more likely to go that extra mile. I could go on. Likewise if you are a shirker you are weeded out.

I like the approach that Timpsons adopt and actions of Julian Richer and the culture he has created; two very successful businesses.

Excellent post  :like:

Can't argue with any of it

The problem is that the business world encourages psychopaths to get to the top, the problem is bigger in larger organizations where Machiavellian scheming and backstabbing is rewarded and like minds end up together in board rooms. Ability and talent general get you nowhere as those who are actually good at their job and get on with it without engaging in the power politics get kept in their positions while less able power hungry psycho types end up getting the promotions. Management skills should be something that people add to their existing skills as and when required with an organization. These people that do an MBA then think they automatically should be put in leadership positions and the culture that promotes this is a big problem

Your idealized world of altruistic leaders supporting and recognizing talented people and allowing them to progress just doesn't happy in reality

Lie communism, it's great in theory but human nature makes it impractical.

Can't argue with that.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!