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Johnny Thunder
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« on: December 04, 2018, 03:22:42 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.
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PoliteDwarf
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2018, 04:51:49 PM »

We need to leave the EU and enter into a tariff free arrangement with Switzerland instead.

Just sayin' like. 
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Gramsci
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2018, 07:09:33 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
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Pile
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 07:26:40 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
That makes no sense.
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Pile
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2018, 07:27:23 PM »

We need to leave the EU and enter into a tariff free arrangement with Switzerland instead.

Just sayin' like. 
Free pen knives everywhere.
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Steechve Boalsie
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 07:40:02 PM »

We need to leave the EU and enter into a tariff free arrangement with Switzerland instead.

Just sayin' like. 


You forgot to login with your Oldfield account  monkey
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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 08:01:42 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
the remain campaign was no better, 
stop the fucking condescending attitude. :wanker:
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Bud Wiser
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 08:04:51 PM »

We need to leave the EU and enter into a tariff free arrangement with Switzerland instead.

Just sayin' like. 

Cheap cuckoo clocks. I like it!  :like:
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Jethro Tull
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 08:11:10 PM »

Yes but all the people who voted leave didn't understand all this talk about trade deals and that' but the remainers do' they read papers and things.
 
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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 08:15:17 PM »

Yes but all the people who voted leave didn't understand all this talk about trade deals and that' but the remainers do' they read papers and things.
 
so THAT'S the difference. mcl
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Billy Balfour
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 08:17:37 PM »

No matter if you voted in or out before, I can't see how anyone could want to remain in eu now.
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Gramsci
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2018, 08:33:54 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
the remain campaign was no better, 
stop the fucking condescending attitude. :wanker:

I am not patronising anyone pal....you are a gobshite like 
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Oldfield
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2018, 08:37:43 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
the remain campaign was no better, 
stop the fucking condescending attitude. :wanker:

I am not patronising anyone pal....you are a gobshite like 

You are a patronising pseudo intellectual who casually casts a blind eye to the overwhelming pack of lies and corruption at the heart of the remain campaign.

Not surprising for a social sciences lecturer who has never had a proper job in his life....
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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2018, 08:40:45 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
the remain campaign was no better, 
stop the fucking condescending attitude. :wanker:

I am not patronising anyone pal....you are a gobshite like 
read your post again then get a dictionary.Not the first time you've come on here slating people who voted leave suggesting they were ignorant and stupid.
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Gramsci
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2018, 08:41:05 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
the remain campaign was no better, 
stop the fucking condescending attitude. :wanker:

I am not patronising anyone pal....you are a gobshite like 

You are a patronising pseudo intellectual who casually casts a blind eye to the overwhelming pack of lies and corruption at the heart of the remain campaign.

Not surprising for a social sciences lecturer who has never had a proper job in his life....

 jc do you fancy writing a reference for me when I apply for a proper job  charles
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Gramsci
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2018, 08:47:18 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
the remain campaign was no better, 
stop the fucking condescending attitude. :wanker:

I am not patronising anyone pal....you are a gobshite like 
read your post again then get a dictionary.Not the first time you've come on here slating people who voted leave suggesting they were ignorant and stupid.

I didn't say anyone was stupid or ignorant lad - I said people were misinformed and I have always believed that the IN/OUT referendum was a too simplistic solution to a very complex problem. I am no huge fan of the EU rule, I have always maintained that position....however a vote to leave, in my opinion, was creating a hostage to fortune....we are the hostages now and the EU the fortunate - we pay a massive sum to "leave" yet remain bound by their administration and lose our ability to influence policy and pay handsomely for that loss of privilege....that's what is stupid
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Robbso
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2018, 08:49:26 PM »

That's with deal May proposes, which is why it's unlikely to succeed.
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Steechve Boalsie
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2018, 08:51:19 PM »

My vote would be to go with whatever May is proposing and never have to hear about it or talk about it ever again  rava
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Ural Quntz
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2018, 08:54:34 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
That makes no sense.

Did to me...….

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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2018, 09:08:27 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
the remain campaign was no better, 
stop the fucking condescending attitude. :wanker:

I am not patronising anyone pal....you are a gobshite like 
read your post again then get a dictionary.Not the first time you've come on here slating people who voted leave suggesting they were ignorant and stupid.

I didn't say anyone was stupid or ignorant lad - I said people were misinformed and I have always believed that the IN/OUT referendum was a too simplistic solution to a very complex problem. I am no huge fan of the EU rule, I have always maintained that position....however a vote to leave, in my opinion, was creating a hostage to fortune....we are the hostages now and the EU the fortunate - we pay a massive sum to "leave" yet remain bound by their administration and lose our ability to influence policy and pay handsomely for that loss of privilege....that's what is stupid
you can say that about a general election,people were given a simple choice,leave or stay.The same simple choice when we joined.
I voted leave because the EU overreached,it was never meant to be a federal union,that's politicians meddling.Cameron asked for reforms and was refused,now they are playing hardball because we are leaving,how very democratic and liberal of them. Europe is too disparate to  be federalised,look at the German and greek economies,one is supporting the other to the resentment of both.
    I think we will see a break up and a reforming with core menbers at some point,it's unworkable at present,especially the the "satellite" states from the old iron curtain countries creating more of a burden.
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Oldfield
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2018, 09:19:11 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
the remain campaign was no better, 
stop the fucking condescending attitude. :wanker:

I am not patronising anyone pal....you are a gobshite like 
read your post again then get a dictionary.Not the first time you've come on here slating people who voted leave suggesting they were ignorant and stupid.

I didn't say anyone was stupid or ignorant lad - I said people were misinformed and I have always believed that the IN/OUT referendum was a too simplistic solution to a very complex problem. I am no huge fan of the EU rule, I have always maintained that position....however a vote to leave, in my opinion, was creating a hostage to fortune....we are the hostages now and the EU the fortunate - we pay a massive sum to "leave" yet remain bound by their administration and lose our ability to influence policy and pay handsomely for that loss of privilege....that's what is stupid

Or we simply say “no deal” and do a WTO exit and continue on accordingly.

Lets see if the EU are “fortunate” then.... i suspect not..... its the one thing they fear most hence Project fear 2.

You might know a thing or two about negotiating if you had bothered to apply your knowledge in industry.

 :wanker:
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Pile
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2018, 09:52:18 PM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost
That makes no sense.

Did to me...….


So a referendum is not demoncratic because you didn’t like the result? Every vote (GE) we’ve ever had has been based on manifestos which don’t deliver, I.e pack of lies.

Regardless of what people were told and what is true, the referendum was democratic.
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Gramsci
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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2018, 10:30:12 PM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2018, 10:33:26 PM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
more generalising. rava
 
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Robbso
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2018, 10:34:57 PM »

The vote put to the public was remain or leave.

Dead simple.
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Gramsci
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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2018, 10:36:30 PM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
more generalising. rava
 

go on lad tell me to man up  charles
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Gramsci
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« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2018, 10:37:05 PM »

The vote put to the public was remain or leave.

Dead too simple.

 jc
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Robbso
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« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2018, 10:41:55 PM »

Only for the losers it seems.
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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2018, 10:49:52 PM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
more generalising. rava
 

go on lad tell me to man up  charles
better you stop offering opinion as fact.Incidentally corbyn is anti EU,how does that sit with you.
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Gramsci
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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2018, 10:59:13 PM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
more generalising. rava
 

go on lad tell me to man up  charles
better you stop offering opinion as fact.Incidentally corbyn is anti EU,how does that sit with you.

There is no such thing as a fact mate....that's a basic philosophical premise, there are only opinions, with some being more convincing than others.
Corbyn being anti EU is fine by me and as a socialist, so am I mate....but it is better to negotiate and change things from within, rather than from without 
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« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2018, 11:04:01 PM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
more generalising. rava
 

go on lad tell me to man up  charles
better you stop offering opinion as fact.Incidentally corbyn is anti EU,how does that sit with you.

There is no such thing as a fact mate....that's a basic philosophical premise, there are only opinions, with some being more convincing than others.
Corbyn being anti EU is fine by me and as a socialist, so am I mate....but it is better to negotiate and change things from within, rather than from without 


Good job then we're interested in changing Britain then, not the EU.
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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2018, 11:40:13 PM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
more generalising. rava
 

go on lad tell me to man up  charles
better you stop offering opinion as fact.Incidentally corbyn is anti EU,how does that sit with you.

There is no such thing as a fact mate....that's a basic philosophical premise, there are only opinions, with some being more convincing than others.
Corbyn being anti EU is fine by me and as a socialist, so am I mate....but it is better to negotiate and change things from within, rather than from without 

lost
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« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2018, 11:44:19 PM »

Say they did another vote and it was still leave what excuses would remainers come up with other than racists
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« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2018, 01:12:03 AM »

Say they did another vote and it was still leave what excuses would remainers come up with other than racists

More people than did would vote out if we had another referendum.  These globalist, open border, massive state yearning , fascist, lefty, commie cunts, wouldn't stand a chance.

"But the young would vote"

Apart from the fact they wouldn't fuckin vote. People get more right as they get older....

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« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2018, 07:18:18 AM »

My vote would be to go with whatever May is proposing and never have to hear about it or talk about it ever again  rava

I agree. Let's have a referendum on it.  mcl
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« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 07:47:12 AM »

Basically told our Politicians that they can rip up article 50.


There you have it. A dictatorship.
Fuck the people. Just do what the fuck you want.




Like I said all along. No fuckin way will brexit happen.

A Leave campaign made up of misinformation, scaremongering and downright lies dos not mean we live in a democracy just because people got the chance to vote on something that they didn't know what they were voting for  lost



There you go. Straight in with the remain bollocks and totally missing the point.

 :like:
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« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2018, 08:01:27 AM »

I had the pleasure recently of having a drink with a british family in France.
They asked me how I voted . I said out marginally as I was perhaps 51 49 sure myself .
Out of the 5 only 1 voted remain. He was a phd chemist working for gsk. The others were either retired or had decent jobs. One was a barrister.
The chemist gave his reason for remain being that he's not a racist and every one who voted out was a racist.
As you can imagine it didn't go down well.
The barrister informed us all he is always working on EU legislation proposals as they are unconstitutional and very undemocratic.  He said it's not just UK lawyers fighting them it's across Europe. Lawyers from most countries are constantly fighting them.
He said the pure eu they want is almost a dictatorship and we honestly don't want to go there.
I gave my reasons for leaving to the them as being i read it was undemocratic and also felt tuition fees and subsidies were removed due to free movement so it gave poor countries youth a chance over ours.
He didn't disagree and admitted he got his PhD funding before it was cut.
Like i said earlier i was 51 49 out.
I'm 100 % out now no matter what that entails.  I'll sell my house if I have to.
I'd rather be skint than live under a dictatorship.
If you are a remainer,  please take a proper look as I can't believe anyone would throw they're democracy under a bus.


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« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2018, 08:28:28 AM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
What if we had a GE and the tories still won with brexit in their manifesto or a second referendum where brexit won? We’d be in exactly the same position so why waste the time and money on it? Like most remainers, your arguments are based on economics only. Why dont you consider what impact the Eu has on local tradesmen or people in working class areas who are swamped with Eu migrants? That’s not my reason for leaving, it was the real threat of an Eu army and how it could destabilise pace but I suppose you’re too old to join so it won’t bother you. At the time of referendum it was dismissed as fantasy, as a remainer are you happy to state you were lied to by the remain campaign who said it wasn’t true? Probably not.
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« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2018, 10:42:05 AM »

I didn't say that either Pile - the analogy with a GE is not valid. Voters are far more informed of what they are voting in a GE and importantly what they are not voting for - when a party doesn't deliver you have the chance to vote again and vote them out. This referendum was voting for the unknown - the taking back control bollocks is just jingoistic bullshit that appeals to a lowest common denominator opinion....and the Leavers knew that they could work that ticket - it is a reductionist viewpoint and in my opinion appeals to those with a very limited knowledge of politics and economics - if people want to see that as condescending then so be it.
It is my genuine opinion that if people were more informed as to what they were voting for....like we are more so now years down the line, then I think Remain would have won....politicians have failed to negotiate us into a good position, the EU are making an example of us, as they always would....therefore like a GE let's have another referendum ...now that we know more and see where we are at....because the Tories have failed miserably in their job......although the good thing is that it could end up making Jezza's route to number 10 much easier  :mido:
What if we had a GE and the tories still won with brexit in their manifesto or a second referendum where brexit won? We’d be in exactly the same position so why waste the time and money on it? Like most remainers, your arguments are based on economics only. Why dont you consider what impact the Eu has on local tradesmen or people in working class areas who are swamped with Eu migrants? That’s not my reason for leaving, it was the real threat of an Eu army and how it could destabilise pace but I suppose you’re too old to join so it won’t bother you. At the time of referendum it was dismissed as fantasy, as a remainer are you happy to state you were lied to by the remain campaign who said it wasn’t true? Probably not.

That's a fair question Pile - my issue is simple in that in order to have a vote on such an important issue, the electorate need to be informed about the decision they are making - they were not - I am not saying that the Remain side were guilt free of misinformation either. However another referendum right now, knowing what we know now, would allow a more informed electorate to make the choice.
I am not in favour of an EU army, nor am I in favour of a Franco-German ran EU....but I am not an isolationist either....for me personally, I see myself as a Brit but also a European - so for me to vote for Remain was also a decision that was culturally based. I believe that together we are stronger and I see Russia and China as a threat to the global order and would feel safer as a major player in the EU. I think that being members of the EU has improved our economy and our standard of living. I do not agree with an open-borders immigration policy, I believe on a points-based system like in Oz. So for me there are pros and cons on either side.....but better the devil you know IMO.
Cameron was a shit house and could have put pressure on the EU with a threat of a referendum and the possible consequences of Brexit and get a much better deal from the EU - he didn't - he caved in to his back benchers as a way of holding onto power.
There is no clear cut "facts" in any of the arguments on here - they are merely opinions, like mine. My overall belief is that this was too big a decision to be put to the vote as an "in/out" option - there should have been other options to vote for rather than it being so black and white - because that is divisive and that is what we have - a divided house of commons and a divided population - clear cut lines such as these are not good for anyone - it encourages polarity of opinion and extremist viewpoints....on both sides and that is dangerous.
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