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Romeo_Brass
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« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2018, 01:22:18 AM »

Surely someone inside the prison will know who he is and do him in, or take a photo and make it public so when he is released people can hand out some proper justice.
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Bullet Tooth Tony
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« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2018, 02:02:58 AM »

Surely someone inside the prison will know who he is and do him in, or take a photo and make it public so when he is released people can hand out some proper justice.

It's a two year jail offence to distribute any pictures of these EVIL bastards
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Robbso
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« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2018, 07:30:29 AM »

Atheism. To admit evil  exists, well you can guess the rest.
never associated good and evil with religious scripture, I would be surprised if anyone used it in a religious context anyway,just another word for bad person,fucking god botherers always ttrying to work the religious angle in,evil bastards. :pope2:

 monkey

Calm down tiger. You've never heard of the devil, Satan, Lucifer??  Some atheists refuse to believe in it and evil because they'd have to acknowledge his old man. :basil:
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daftjim
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« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2018, 07:44:05 AM »

What's your excuse for Douglas Vinter the Ronald?

I know his parents and family and each and everyone of them are lovely. They've all had a fantastic upbringing. Yet that cunt killed two innocent people, which for me is pure evil, so tell me why evil doesn't exist.

Read up on the subject rather than basing it on anecdotal evidence.

Nothing 'anecdotal' about what he asked you.
He gave you a direct example from personal experience, not from what he read in a book.

Shit answer Ron. If you can't give the lad an answer (or can't find it on wiki) just admit it.
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ron_manager
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« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2018, 08:02:01 AM »

What's your excuse for Douglas Vinter the Ronald?

I know his parents and family and each and everyone of them are lovely. They've all had a fantastic upbringing. Yet that cunt killed two innocent people, which for me is pure evil, so tell me why evil doesn't exist.

Read up on the subject rather than basing it on anecdotal evidence.

Nothing 'anecdotal' about what he asked you.
He gave you a direct example from personal experience, not from what he read in a book.

Shit answer Ron. If you can't give the lad an answer (or can't find it on wiki) just admit it.

No he gave a subjective and anecdotal response. That is not research.

Also he knows the people. I dont really want to give the answer I could.
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« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2018, 08:04:57 AM »

Atheism. To admit evil  exists, well you can guess the rest.
never associated good and evil with religious scripture, I would be surprised if anyone used it in a religious context anyway,just another word for bad person,fucking god botherers always ttrying to work the religious angle in,evil bastards. :pope2:

 monkey

Calm down tiger. You've never heard of the devil, Satan, Lucifer??  Some atheists refuse to believe in it and evil because they'd have to acknowledge his old man. :basil:


You have obviously not read the bible thoroughly 

Satan is mentioned but hell on the other rarely or the idea that is where we go if we are sinners. It is a medieval construct. In fact if you were truly following the dogma of christianity you would be forgiving all sinners even child murderers.
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« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2018, 08:24:23 AM »

I've never read the bible. It's shit. However you as an atheist know I'm right :homer:
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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2018, 09:28:42 AM »

Atheism. To admit evil  exists, well you can guess the rest.
never associated good and evil with religious scripture, I would be surprised if anyone used it in a religious context anyway,just another word for bad person,fucking god botherers always ttrying to work the religious angle in,evil bastards. :pope2:

 monkey

Calm down tiger. You've never heard of the devil, Satan, Lucifer??  Some atheists refuse to believe in it and evil because they'd have to acknowledge his old man. :basil:

bantz and loll's, :pope2:
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Blind_faith
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« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2018, 09:45:40 AM »

I've never read the bible. It's shit. However you as an atheist know I'm right :homer:

 souey
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Everard Thundercock
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« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2018, 09:48:31 AM »

I've never read the bible. It's shit. However you as an atheist know I'm right :homer:
Not enough pictures in it, eh Robbso?
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Robbso
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« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2018, 10:42:38 AM »

Thrush is back :homer:

Stop following me around like a creepy old man. Mid to late 60's now.
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Robbso
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« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2018, 11:02:07 AM »

Quantico and the fbi profilers realised as far back as the 70's that serial killers were usually the product of a troubled childhood. In many cases they had domineering and abusive maternal figures in their life. They were beaten, humiliated, sexually abused and subject to horrors most of us couldn't imagine.

Many of them developed a taste for torturing, killing and mutilating animals. They had no remorse, no sense of right and wrong in fact no feelings which allowed them to kill and torture other human beings mainly women or kids.

However. I bet there millions of kids worldwide who have suffered the same upbringing and while many will be damaged I guarantee they didn't all become murderers.


So why do some do and some Don't?
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Blind_faith
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« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2018, 11:04:59 AM »

Quantico and the fbi profilers realised as far back as the 70's that serial killers were usually the product of a troubled childhood. In many cases they had domineering and abusive maternal figures in their life. They were beaten, humiliated, sexually abused and subject to horrors most of us couldn't imagine.

Many of them developed a taste for torturing, killing and mutilating animals. They had no remorse, no sense of right and wrong in fact no feelings which allowed them to kill and torture other human beings mainly women or kids.

However. I bet there millions of kids worldwide who have suffered the same upbringing and while many will be damaged I guarantee they didn't all become murderers.


So why do some do and some Don't?

is the answer "gingers"
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LEON TROTSKY
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« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2018, 11:41:14 AM »

A PRICE HAS BEEN PUT ON HIS HEAD IN JAIL  :like:

SOMEONE WILL BE ALONG SOON TO PICK IT UP 
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Bob End and his Sexy Bitch
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« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2018, 11:58:55 AM »

Quantico and the fbi profilers realised as far back as the 70's that serial killers were usually the product of a troubled childhood. In many cases they had domineering and abusive maternal figures in their life. They were beaten, humiliated, sexually abused and subject to horrors most of us couldn't imagine.

Many of them developed a taste for torturing, killing and mutilating animals. They had no remorse, no sense of right and wrong in fact no feelings which allowed them to kill and torture other human beings mainly women or kids.

However. I bet there millions of kids worldwide who have suffered the same upbringing and while many will be damaged I guarantee they didn't all become murderers.


So why do some do and some Don't?

is the answer "gingers"

I am touched with a strong ginna brush and my two daughters also, and I can tell you that the answer to your question is 'yes'. Two queer buggers them girls  klins
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Blind_faith
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« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2018, 01:31:41 PM »

Quantico and the fbi profilers realised as far back as the 70's that serial killers were usually the product of a troubled childhood. In many cases they had domineering and abusive maternal figures in their life. They were beaten, humiliated, sexually abused and subject to horrors most of us couldn't imagine.

Many of them developed a taste for torturing, killing and mutilating animals. They had no remorse, no sense of right and wrong in fact no feelings which allowed them to kill and torture other human beings mainly women or kids.

However. I bet there millions of kids worldwide who have suffered the same upbringing and while many will be damaged I guarantee they didn't all become murderers.


So why do some do and some Don't?

is the answer "gingers"

I am touched with a strong ginna brush and my two daughters also, and I can tell you that the answer to your question is 'yes'. Two queer buggers them girls  klins

with all respect,

ginger birds are alright though bob

its just ginger lads that should be shot through the head with one of them bolt guns
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calamity
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« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2018, 01:53:44 PM »

Fa
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Bob End and his Sexy Bitch
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« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2018, 03:59:43 PM »

Quantico and the fbi profilers realised as far back as the 70's that serial killers were usually the product of a troubled childhood. In many cases they had domineering and abusive maternal figures in their life. They were beaten, humiliated, sexually abused and subject to horrors most of us couldn't imagine.

Many of them developed a taste for torturing, killing and mutilating animals. They had no remorse, no sense of right and wrong in fact no feelings which allowed them to kill and torture other human beings mainly women or kids.

However. I bet there millions of kids worldwide who have suffered the same upbringing and while many will be damaged I guarantee they didn't all become murderers.


So why do some do and some Don't?

is the answer "gingers"

I am touched with a strong ginna brush and my two daughters also, and I can tell you that the answer to your question is 'yes'. Two queer buggers them girls  klins

with all respect,

ginger birds are alright though bob

its just ginger lads that should be shot through the head with one of them bolt guns

Errrrmmmmm.... Aye, that lass that used to be on Dr Who about five years ago 

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Blind_faith
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« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2018, 04:56:55 PM »

wouldnt watch that shite even if scarlett johansson stepped out of the fucking tardis
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Robbso
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« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2018, 07:05:50 PM »

Just seen some pictures supposedly of him. Not ginger. Fat and scruffy but definately not a ginge.
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Blind_faith
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« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2018, 08:00:29 PM »

Just seen some pictures supposedly of him. Not ginger. Fat and scruffy but definately not a ginge.

Who
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calamity
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« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2018, 08:04:00 PM »

Just seen some pictures supposedly of him. Not ginger. Fat and scruffy but definately not a ginge.

Who

Venables I guess, itís on social media.
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« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2018, 02:06:25 PM »

Kids from all walks of life can become violent criminals .
Jeremy Bamber although I think adopted as a baby was brought up extremely well off and we all know what he did .
While they say Thompson was neglected ( like many kids are including his other brothers )Venebles was brought up reasonably well , accept his parents had split up ( which isn't uncommon with a lot of kids / families , mostly in most cases for the better )his parents actually got on and has no problems with each other or anybody else .
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Minge
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« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2018, 03:18:35 PM »

Show about it last night on telly ,Had to turn over  :gaz:
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Wee_Willie
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« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2018, 03:26:39 PM »

I think the obscenity of the crime they committed and the subsequent punishment meted out however lenient would create a complete outlier in terms of quantifying a relationship between upbringing and the crime committed.

Society has been very lenient because of their age. I am not sure what the burden has been on the tax payer funding new identities and relocations of the two murderers (not sure if this included parents and siblings?) and the cosmetic surgery they've undergone. I am confident it will be a considerable sum which has been thrown back into societies face..

What I don't understand is why they deserve anonymity now they're adults. I can kind of accept it when they were 10. It seems unfair that (AS AN ADULT) if I wanted to bag off with a pro and got caught by the police I would be name shamed in public with a mugshot strewn across the Gazette. The after effects would be horrendous and my life would be virtually destroyed. If either of these two did it only their previous names would be made public and their alias's would be protected, as would their mugshot. To me that is grossly unfair and I'm not the one who killed a 2 year baby.  
  
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« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2018, 03:38:23 PM »

Kids from all walks of life can become violent criminals .
Jeremy Bamber although I think adopted as a baby was brought up extremely well off and we all know what he did .
While they say Thompson was neglected ( like many kids are including his other brothers )Venebles was brought up reasonably well , accept his parents had split up ( which isn't uncommon with a lot of kids / families , mostly in most cases for the better )his parents actually got on and has no problems with each other or anybody else .

Venables was the middle child and the two children had learning difficulties so got most of the attention from a single mother struggling to cope.

She may have been a decent person at heart, but he was kept back a year and was never at school. So he was hardly given a good grounding. Mix that with Thompson and you have what became.
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Robbso
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« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2018, 05:38:31 PM »

It's not just this country that fuck up. Gacy in the states killed 30 plus young lads the first about 1972. He had been jailed for rape or something and given 10 years. They let him out after 2. cry


Bad upbringing however his siblings didn't become mass murderers.
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« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2018, 05:44:21 PM »

A few people have mentioned adult murders on here. That is a slightly different thing. I've been talking about parenting and upbringing particularly related to young children who commit crime. When adult is reached different things (along with poor parenting etc) come into play such as drug abuse, alcoholism etc.

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ron_manager
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« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2018, 05:45:25 PM »

It's not just this country that fuck up. Gacy in the states killed 30 plus young lads the first about 1972. He had been jailed for rape or something and given 10 years. They let him out after 2. cry


Bad upbringing however his siblings didn't become mass murderers.


As stated above there is a biological component, there is upbringing and then there is life experiences added on top.

The book I linked early and the particular chapter really explains such discrepancies very well.
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coulbyboro.
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« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2018, 05:49:52 PM »

the nature or nurture argument really.
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« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2018, 05:54:36 PM »

the nature or nurture argument really.

Not sure what you are getting at?
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« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2018, 05:59:27 PM »

the nature or nurture argument really.

Not sure what you are getting at?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_versus_nurture
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Everard Thundercock
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« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2018, 06:01:33 PM »

I've never read the bible. It's shit. However you as an atheist know I'm right :homer:
Not enough pictures in it, eh Robbso?
Nobody follows you round, you rancid, paranoid old toad. I do occasionally take the piss out of you.
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« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2018, 06:09:58 PM »


I know what it is  souey

I was wondering what you meant by the comment. It's quite obvious that I believe that nurture is by far in most cases the biggest psychological influence moving from childhood to adulthood.
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« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2018, 06:20:52 PM »


I know what it is  souey

I was wondering what you meant by the comment. It's quite obvious that I believe that nurture is by far in most cases the biggest psychological influence moving from childhood to adulthood.
I meant the board seems to be split along born evil/made evil lines,maybe the same for the general public,rational vs emotion, when it happened large groups of adults/lynch mob gathered outside the courts  to bang on the van and screech threats at two ten year olds .Academia lined up to explain and rationalise their behaviour.
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« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2018, 06:24:24 PM »


I know what it is  souey

I was wondering what you meant by the comment. It's quite obvious that I believe that nurture is by far in most cases the biggest psychological influence moving from childhood to adulthood.
I meant the board seems to be split along born evil/made evil lines,maybe the same for the general public,rational vs emotion, when it happened large groups of adults/lynch mob gathered outside the courts  to bang on the van and screech threats at two ten year olds .Academia lined up to explain and rationalise their behaviour.

 :like: Cheers lad, got yer. 

I just don't like it when people say a person who has done bad things is "evil". It removes the need to understand why.
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« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2018, 06:36:15 PM »

I've never read the bible. It's shit. However you as an atheist know I'm right :homer:
Not enough pictures in it, eh Robbso?
Nobody follows you round, you rancid, paranoid old toad. I do occasionally take the piss out of you.

It's a frog you stupid demented old cunt. You thought you turned me into a frog, not a toad. This is what you do. You follow people about snapping and snarling looking for a reaction. Then when they bite you post pictures, make up names and generally lose the plot. You end up going to far and post photos of little boys cocks or insult the war dead and get banned, usually preceeded by a melodramatic, long winded speech claiming every one is picking on you. Demented fucking pensioner. Another thread fucking ruined.

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« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2018, 06:38:23 PM »

I've never read the bible. It's shit. However you as an atheist know I'm right :homer:
Not enough pictures in it, eh Robbso?
Nobody follows you round, you rancid, paranoid old toad. I do occasionally take the piss out of you.

It's a frog you stupid demented old cunt. You thought you turned me into a frog, not a toad. This is what you do. You follow people about snapping and snarling looking for a reaction. Then when they bite you post pictures, make up names and generally lose the plot. You end up going to far and post photos of little boys cocks or insult the war dead and get banned, usually preceeded by a melodramatic, long winded speech claiming every one is picking on you. Demented fucking pensioner. Another thread fucking ruined.



It's a debate Ron. Most serial killers maim and kill animals while they are children. Why?
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« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2018, 06:52:14 PM »

I've never read the bible. It's shit. However you as an atheist know I'm right :homer:
Not enough pictures in it, eh Robbso?
Nobody follows you round, you rancid, paranoid old toad. I do occasionally take the piss out of you.

It's a frog you stupid demented old cunt. You thought you turned me into a frog, not a toad. This is what you do. You follow people about snapping and snarling looking for a reaction. Then when they bite you post pictures, make up names and generally lose the plot. You end up going to far and post photos of little boys cocks or insult the war dead and get banned, usually preceeded by a melodramatic, long winded speech claiming every one is picking on you. Demented fucking pensioner. Another thread fucking ruined.



It's a debate Ron. Most serial killers maim and kill animals while they are children. Why?

A lack of empathy.
A need to be in control


In most cases they have been raised (particulalry in the early attachment stage) with minimal emotional input form mother, father, parents etc. They don't develop that skill of a basic right and wrong. If they have also been abused (particulalry physically abused)  they start to gain pleasure from pain. In fact it can become the only way they feel any form of pleasure.
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« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2018, 06:57:10 PM »

Yes, I think I covered all that yesterday. Why, siblings with the same upbringing don't turn out that way is my question. I think you as an atheist refuse to believe in good and evil. You go looking for answers in books and case studies because it's sometimes simpler than admitting some people are just born different and all it needs is a trigger.
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« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2018, 07:05:53 PM »

Yes, I think I covered all that yesterday. Why, siblings with the same upbringing don't turn out that way is my question. I think you as an atheist refuse to believe in good and evil. You go looking for answers in books and case studies because it's sometimes simpler than admitting some people are just born different and all it needs is a trigger.

Read the chapter in that book and you will understand why the slightest changes in parenting can lead to such catastrophic outcomes. It's not simpler to actually try to understand the human psyche. It's simpler and more comforting just to think "they were born bad" as then society has nothing to answer for.


Also whilst I do look for understanding in books, journal articles and study. I've actually worked with 100s and 100s of extremely damaged people over my working life. What is even  more revealing is the age group I work with now (as you know) how many of them as the brain damage occurs start to reveal psychological issues that have remained buried for decades and which can present as extreme behaviours now that the control has gone (Frontal lobe damage).
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« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2018, 07:10:21 PM »

I understand that.
What I have wanted to understand for years is why Just, usually one member of a family turns out different. I've read loads of books on serial killers etc and will no doubt read many more. As I said yesterday there are millions of abused children who don't commit heinous crimes
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« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2018, 07:11:50 PM »

He just won't answer that. Refuses to time and again. If it's not in a book he won't offer an opinion.
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« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2018, 07:20:18 PM »

I understand that.
What I have wanted to understand for years is why Just, usually one member of a family turns out different. I've read loads of books on serial killers etc and will no doubt read many more. As I said yesterday there are millions of abused children who don't commit heinous crimes

You're asking me to answer something that would...

A: involve a massive response and lots of research of case. discussion about neural development, attachment theory, pre morbid personality etc (I'll bore you next time I see you at the match) 

B: I only know what I know and am by no means an expert just someone with a massive interest in psychology  :pope2:

C: I am going to drink my gin so fuck off  charles
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« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2018, 07:22:22 PM »

C was the right answer. :homer:
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« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2018, 07:40:16 PM »

Yes, I think I covered all that yesterday. Why, siblings with the same upbringing don't turn out that way is my question. I think you as an atheist refuse to believe in good and evil. You go looking for answers in books and case studies because it's sometimes simpler than admitting some people are just born different and all it needs is a trigger.
I believe in good and evil and I'm an atheist, Although I see it as good and bad, it amounts to the same thing.Lot of bad/evil things done in the name of religion,how does that work. The muslims are brought to believe women and non muslims are lesser beings, is that nurture.
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« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2018, 07:44:13 PM »

 souey

Muslims, Muslims, muslims.
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« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2018, 07:51:12 PM »

a good example of evil done in the name of religion in the 21st century.jihadi john and the isis lot aren't catholics.
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« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2018, 07:55:26 PM »

The loons are a backward bunch of fanatics.
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« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2018, 08:02:58 PM »

Just execute the sick bastard.

Why waste any more time, effort and money on him?
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