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We lose zero sovereignty if we allow India 500k visas as part of a Trade Agreement because we can decide whether to accept that deal or not...because we're a sovereign nation.

However if, when part of the EU, a deal was stuck stipulating that we must grant 500k visas to India then we have zero sovereignty. The sovereignty would lie with the EU.


sovereignty
/ˈsɒvr(ɪ)nti/

noun
supreme power or authority.
"the sovereignty of Parliament"

You miss the point.We get to choose and sack our leaders. You don’t in the EU.

Nope. Every trade deal has trade-offs relating to immigration or protected industries like farming or fishing. Every trade deal involves two-way flexibility on matters formerly sovereign to the parties making the deal

Rutters claimed these deals involved no loss of sovereignty whatsoever, he was wrong. He seems to miss the point that a "give and take" trade deal is the same thing as a "trade-off", in this context

You miss the point.We get to choose and sack our leaders. You don’t in the EU.

If the UK is part of the EU trading bloc and subject to the EU's jurisdiction then we have no sovereignty.

We currently have a trade deal with many countries without losing any sovereignty whatsoever.

Independent trade deals are the opposite of 'all-or-nothing'. They're 'give and take'.

That's why they're called 'deals'.

You think a new trade deal doesn't involve any trade-offs in sovereignty? Of course it does e.g. we make a trade deal with India and they demand 500K more Visas for Indian Nationals to study or work in the UK.

We trade off some immigration control in return for greater access to something they have

Can't believe I'm having to explain this...



https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/media-centre/house-of-lords-media-notices/2016/december-2016/post-brexit-options-for-trade-require-sovereignty-trade-offs-and-a-transitional-deal-says-lords-report/

If the UK is part of the EU trading bloc and subject to the EU's jurisdiction then we have no sovereignty.

We currently have a trade deal with many countries without losing any sovereignty whatsoever.

Independent trade deals are the opposite of 'all-or-nothing'. They're 'give and take'.

That's why they're called 'deals'.

Couldn't agree more. The problem really isn't the amount of money given. The Public Sector know that however much they squander, there will always be more. Giving them more cash just reinforces that belief.

As well as cash going into private pockets I would add poor procurement, over-prescription, over-management, diversity targets and training, health tourism, part-time working, doctors leaving for private or overseas work, executive salaries and generous conditions/pensions to the long list of waste.

If you have a Public monopoly, you get waste. If you have a private monopoly, you get profiteering.

For me the sweet spot is a mix of public and multiple private providers providing more choice for patients.
 

All trade deals require sovereignty trade-offs Bill, that's how they work



It was a lie to pretend we could abandon our amazing deal with the EU and sign new deals with other countries without any sovereignty trade-offs

What is it about Brexiteers that makes them so all-or-nothing in their thinking?

What is it about sovereignty that these remainiacs hate so much? Isn’t that why Ukraine is fighting such a bloody war?

Quote
The problem isn't the amount of money it gets, rather how it's spent.
Unquote

Agreed Rutters.

Plenty of cash invested in the NHS but the problem is that much of it is spent on private services such as those parasites SERCO, ERS et al. Who are run by the Churchills' (Soames), Mays and other top tory families. Look at some other privatise services where the share holders rule supreme.
Energy (Prices) Water (shortages and pollution) Railways (fucked even before the strikes) Prison service (understaffed and too many errors on releases) Steel ( virtually gone asset stripped then sold off after privatisation) Royal mail and the Post Office (Terrible service) and on it goes.

Added to that, pharmacies and surgeries should be much more disciplined in the control of prescriptions. I see fortunes wasted on drugs which are returned unused which must be destroyed and nationally must cost many millions of pounds.

Before declaring it an 'economic disaster' wouldn't it be better to wait until we'd actually Brexited?

The red tape isn't our idea. One of the basic tenets of Brexit was to reduce the EU red tape. They appear to be able to trade with other non-EU countries with no problems. Wonder why it's just us?